K
9/11 the truth
dragn168
+1y
news flash / history lesson:
patriot act let the government tap into our phones. well to day a u.s. judge just called the act "unconstitutional" and therefore illegal untill it goes to the supreme court. that ends the newsflash.
now for the history lesson:
flash back to the late 70's early 80's russia decides to invade afganistan so after america watches afganistan get their ass kicked we stepped in to help out. we went over and trained the afgans. we went over and sold them weapons. our govt owned the toyota dealership that sold them all those little pick ups. now lets look at who was one of the leaders of the afgan army, holy shit its osama bin ladin. so we did train the terrorist.
now wtf happend that they wanted to kill us? at the end of the war the second we knew it was over we left. no hand shakes no "cya later buddy heres some cash for a cab ride" or "lets go get a drink". we just up and left afganistan in rubbel and thats what pissed them off we had never done that for any one else. every other country we helped we helped fix their shit at the end.
oh yeah and awhile before that (end of WWII) we kinda just made a new country in the middle of their boys(palistine)front yard. and one more thing they way we live over here is totally against their religious believes.
thats why they have always hated us. so is any one else wondering why they wanted to kill our entire nation
patriot act let the government tap into our phones. well to day a u.s. judge just called the act "unconstitutional" and therefore illegal untill it goes to the supreme court. that ends the newsflash.
now for the history lesson:
flash back to the late 70's early 80's russia decides to invade afganistan so after america watches afganistan get their ass kicked we stepped in to help out. we went over and trained the afgans. we went over and sold them weapons. our govt owned the toyota dealership that sold them all those little pick ups. now lets look at who was one of the leaders of the afgan army, holy shit its osama bin ladin. so we did train the terrorist.
now wtf happend that they wanted to kill us? at the end of the war the second we knew it was over we left. no hand shakes no "cya later buddy heres some cash for a cab ride" or "lets go get a drink". we just up and left afganistan in rubbel and thats what pissed them off we had never done that for any one else. every other country we helped we helped fix their shit at the end.
oh yeah and awhile before that (end of WWII) we kinda just made a new country in the middle of their boys(palistine)front yard. and one more thing they way we live over here is totally against their religious believes.
thats why they have always hated us. so is any one else wondering why they wanted to kill our entire nation
impounded dakota
+1y
Most conspiracies live in that unexplainable 10% range with 90% truth heaped on top of it, where they can create a completely unexplainable concept that no one can prove or disprove for that last 10%. The thing that made 9/11 infamous, was that ALOT of people knew it was going to happen, weeks before it happened, who all got notices to not fly for a certain period of time due to possible risks. The fact that soo many people got this notice, yet no one prevented it from happening, opens up a large gap for conspiracies to thrive. Because people would much rather believe our govt was soo smart it allowed this to happen on purpose, for whatever reason, as opposed to accepting the fact that maybe our govt isn't protecting us, as well as it should be.
These countries hate us because we choose sides, and are very un-loyal when it comes to who we back. Americans seem to have short term memory loss when it comes to our past, and who we've helped.
It started with iran, we actually initially developed their nuclear program back in the 70's, when they were going to be our friend in the region, mostly cause of oil, but also because they bordered the russians, and we can always use a good foot hold in the middle east. They were our friends for years, till they over threw the person we liked, and put someone we didn't like into power, so we then backed Suddam (lots of weapons and money), to fight iran. Then we backed the afghans, and our cia trained bin laden, along with everyone else in that region, to fight the russians. So we move in, do what we want, and leave, so they have an image of us being a bully in the region, which they have managed to spin into a "cowards" title, claiming that we run when times get tough.
Our past, coupled with the fact that the nazi's had two divisions of the SS based in the middle east during wwII, which spurred on propaganda techniques, and anti-jewish teachings for over 50 years, that continues today when they recruit the young in mosques (sp) for their cause. Because of our history there, and the fact that we support, the people they hate, we will always be a target for extremists, especially if we don't change our ways.
These countries hate us because we choose sides, and are very un-loyal when it comes to who we back. Americans seem to have short term memory loss when it comes to our past, and who we've helped.
It started with iran, we actually initially developed their nuclear program back in the 70's, when they were going to be our friend in the region, mostly cause of oil, but also because they bordered the russians, and we can always use a good foot hold in the middle east. They were our friends for years, till they over threw the person we liked, and put someone we didn't like into power, so we then backed Suddam (lots of weapons and money), to fight iran. Then we backed the afghans, and our cia trained bin laden, along with everyone else in that region, to fight the russians. So we move in, do what we want, and leave, so they have an image of us being a bully in the region, which they have managed to spin into a "cowards" title, claiming that we run when times get tough.
Our past, coupled with the fact that the nazi's had two divisions of the SS based in the middle east during wwII, which spurred on propaganda techniques, and anti-jewish teachings for over 50 years, that continues today when they recruit the young in mosques (sp) for their cause. Because of our history there, and the fact that we support, the people they hate, we will always be a target for extremists, especially if we don't change our ways.
impounded dakota
+1y
Popular Mechanics Editor on the new york post article, thought you guys would like to read.
Creating Crazed '9/11 truth'
by james b. meigs
September 12, 2006 -- ON Feb. 7, 2005, I became a member of the Bush/Halliburton/Zionist/CIA/New World Order/Illuminati conspiracy for world domination. That day, Popular Mechanics, the magazine I edit, hit newsstands with a story debunking 9/11 conspiracy theories. Within hours, the online community of 9/11 conspiracy buffs - which calls itself the "9/11 Truth Movement" - was aflame with wild fantasies about me, my staff and the article we had published. Conspiracy Web sites labeled Popular Mechanics a "CIA front organization" and compared us to Nazis and war criminals. For a 104-year-old magazine about science, technology, home improvement and car maintenance, this was pretty extreme stuff. What had we done to provoke such outrage?
Research.
Conspiracy theories alleging that 9/11 was a U.S. government operation are rapidly infiltrating the mainstream. These notions are advanced by hundreds of books, over a million Web pages and even in some college classrooms. The movie "Loose Change," a slick roundup of popular conspiracy claims, has become an Internet sensation.
Worse, these fantasies are gaining influence on the international stage. French author Thierry Meyssan's "The Big Lie," which argues that the U.S. military orchestrated the attacks, was a bestseller in France, and his claims have been widely repeated in European and Middle Eastern media. And recent surveys reveal that, even in moderate Muslim countries such as Turkey and Jordan, majorities of the public believe that no Arab terrorists were involved in the attacks.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion," Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan was fond of saying. "He is not entitled to his own facts." Yet conspiracy theorists want to pick and choose which facts to believe.
Rather than grapple with the huge preponderance of evidence in support of the mainstream view of 9/11, they tend to focus on a handful of small anomalies that they believe cast doubt on the conventional account. These anomalies include the claim that the hole in the Pentagon was too small to have been made by a commercial jet (but just right for a cruise missile); that the Twin Towers were too robustly built to have been destroyed by the jet impacts and fires (so they must have been felled by explosives), and more. If true, these and similar assertions would cast serious doubt on the mainstream account of 9/11.
But they're not true. Popular Mechanics has been fact-checking such claims since late 2004, and recently published a book on the topic. We've pored over transcripts, flight logs and blueprints, and interviewed more than 300 sources - including engineers, aviation experts, military officials, eyewitnesses and members of investigative teams.
In every single case, we found that the very facts used by conspiracy theorists to support their fantasies are mistaken, misunderstood or deliberately falsified.
Here's one example: Meyssan and hundreds of Web sites cite an eyewitness who said the craft that hit the Pentagon looked "like a cruise missile with wings." Here's what that witness, a Washington, D.C., broadcaster named Mike Walter, actually told CNN: "I looked out my window and I saw this plane, this jet, an American Airlines jet, coming. And I thought, 'This doesn't add up. It's really low.' And I saw it. I mean, it was like a cruise missile with wings. It went right there and slammed right into the Pentagon."
We talked to Walter and, like so many of the experts and witnesses widely quoted by conspiracy theorists, he told us he is heartsick to see the way his words have been twisted: "I struggle with the fact that my comments will forever be taken out of context."
Here's another: An article in the American Free Press claims that a seismograph at Columbia University's Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory picked up signals indicating that large bombs were detonated in the towers. The article quotes Columbia geologist Won-Young Kim and certainly looks authoritative. Yet the truth on this issue is not hard to find. A published Lamont-Doherty report on the seismic record of 9/11 says no such thing. Kim told Popular Mechanics that the publication's interpretation of his research was "categorically incorrect." Yet the claim is repeated verbatim on more than 50 Web sites as well as in the film "Loose Change."
Every 9/11 conspiracy theory we investigated was based on similarly shoddy evidence. Most of these falsehoods are easy to refute simply by checking the original source material or talking to experts in the relevant fields. And yet even the flimsiest claims are repeated constantly in conspiracy circles, passed from Web site to book to Web site in an endless daisy chain. And any witness, expert - or publication - that tries to set the record straight is immediately vilified as being part of the conspiracy.
The American public has every right to ask hard questions about 9/11. And informed skepticism about government and media can be healthy. But skepticism needs to be based on facts, not fallacies. Unfortunately, for all too many, conspiratorial fantasies offer a seductive alternative to grappling with the hard realities of a post-9/11 world.
James B. Meigs editor-in-chief of Popular Mechanics
article found here
Creating Crazed '9/11 truth'
by james b. meigs
September 12, 2006 -- ON Feb. 7, 2005, I became a member of the Bush/Halliburton/Zionist/CIA/New World Order/Illuminati conspiracy for world domination. That day, Popular Mechanics, the magazine I edit, hit newsstands with a story debunking 9/11 conspiracy theories. Within hours, the online community of 9/11 conspiracy buffs - which calls itself the "9/11 Truth Movement" - was aflame with wild fantasies about me, my staff and the article we had published. Conspiracy Web sites labeled Popular Mechanics a "CIA front organization" and compared us to Nazis and war criminals. For a 104-year-old magazine about science, technology, home improvement and car maintenance, this was pretty extreme stuff. What had we done to provoke such outrage?
Research.
Conspiracy theories alleging that 9/11 was a U.S. government operation are rapidly infiltrating the mainstream. These notions are advanced by hundreds of books, over a million Web pages and even in some college classrooms. The movie "Loose Change," a slick roundup of popular conspiracy claims, has become an Internet sensation.
Worse, these fantasies are gaining influence on the international stage. French author Thierry Meyssan's "The Big Lie," which argues that the U.S. military orchestrated the attacks, was a bestseller in France, and his claims have been widely repeated in European and Middle Eastern media. And recent surveys reveal that, even in moderate Muslim countries such as Turkey and Jordan, majorities of the public believe that no Arab terrorists were involved in the attacks.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion," Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan was fond of saying. "He is not entitled to his own facts." Yet conspiracy theorists want to pick and choose which facts to believe.
Rather than grapple with the huge preponderance of evidence in support of the mainstream view of 9/11, they tend to focus on a handful of small anomalies that they believe cast doubt on the conventional account. These anomalies include the claim that the hole in the Pentagon was too small to have been made by a commercial jet (but just right for a cruise missile); that the Twin Towers were too robustly built to have been destroyed by the jet impacts and fires (so they must have been felled by explosives), and more. If true, these and similar assertions would cast serious doubt on the mainstream account of 9/11.
But they're not true. Popular Mechanics has been fact-checking such claims since late 2004, and recently published a book on the topic. We've pored over transcripts, flight logs and blueprints, and interviewed more than 300 sources - including engineers, aviation experts, military officials, eyewitnesses and members of investigative teams.
In every single case, we found that the very facts used by conspiracy theorists to support their fantasies are mistaken, misunderstood or deliberately falsified.
Here's one example: Meyssan and hundreds of Web sites cite an eyewitness who said the craft that hit the Pentagon looked "like a cruise missile with wings." Here's what that witness, a Washington, D.C., broadcaster named Mike Walter, actually told CNN: "I looked out my window and I saw this plane, this jet, an American Airlines jet, coming. And I thought, 'This doesn't add up. It's really low.' And I saw it. I mean, it was like a cruise missile with wings. It went right there and slammed right into the Pentagon."
We talked to Walter and, like so many of the experts and witnesses widely quoted by conspiracy theorists, he told us he is heartsick to see the way his words have been twisted: "I struggle with the fact that my comments will forever be taken out of context."
Here's another: An article in the American Free Press claims that a seismograph at Columbia University's Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory picked up signals indicating that large bombs were detonated in the towers. The article quotes Columbia geologist Won-Young Kim and certainly looks authoritative. Yet the truth on this issue is not hard to find. A published Lamont-Doherty report on the seismic record of 9/11 says no such thing. Kim told Popular Mechanics that the publication's interpretation of his research was "categorically incorrect." Yet the claim is repeated verbatim on more than 50 Web sites as well as in the film "Loose Change."
Every 9/11 conspiracy theory we investigated was based on similarly shoddy evidence. Most of these falsehoods are easy to refute simply by checking the original source material or talking to experts in the relevant fields. And yet even the flimsiest claims are repeated constantly in conspiracy circles, passed from Web site to book to Web site in an endless daisy chain. And any witness, expert - or publication - that tries to set the record straight is immediately vilified as being part of the conspiracy.
The American public has every right to ask hard questions about 9/11. And informed skepticism about government and media can be healthy. But skepticism needs to be based on facts, not fallacies. Unfortunately, for all too many, conspiratorial fantasies offer a seductive alternative to grappling with the hard realities of a post-9/11 world.
James B. Meigs editor-in-chief of Popular Mechanics
article found here
impounded dakota
+1y
Even better, to those of you who believe every video you see on the net, please explain where all 2996 people went?
9/11 victims list
9/11 victims list
Sprk Sho
+1y
loose change 2 is pretty convincing, but it's i have the resources to check up on their facts so who knows, bu ti do think people should atleast watch it.
b12yan
+1y
Originally posted by impounded dakota
Even better, to those of you who believe every video you see on the net, please explain where all 2996 people went?
9/11 victims list
i have yet to see a conspiracy saying the buildings were empty... now ur kinda going for a longshot
Even better, to those of you who believe every video you see on the net, please explain where all 2996 people went?
9/11 victims list
i have yet to see a conspiracy saying the buildings were empty... now ur kinda going for a longshot
impulse
+1y
Originally posted by JaydaddyzBurb
you can call me blind but something tells me our govt wouldnt do somethign like 9/11 just to invade ourt privacy or any shit like that
What better and more effective way to do it though????
it seems to have gotten the job done.
you can call me blind but something tells me our govt wouldnt do somethign like 9/11 just to invade ourt privacy or any shit like that
What better and more effective way to do it though????
it seems to have gotten the job done.
impounded dakota
+1y
Edited: 9/12/2006 2:28:19 PM by impounded dakota
Right, but that link leads to the names and most of the faces of all the people who died on that day. So it lists off all of the people who did die on the planes that these theories say didn't die. so your nit picking a number as opposed to showing me where the people in the planes went?
I'm not in any way saying that our goverment didn't take full advantage of the situation, once it happened, but the facts that they "caused it" just do not add up.
Right, but that link leads to the names and most of the faces of all the people who died on that day. So it lists off all of the people who did die on the planes that these theories say didn't die. so your nit picking a number as opposed to showing me where the people in the planes went?
I'm not in any way saying that our goverment didn't take full advantage of the situation, once it happened, but the facts that they "caused it" just do not add up.
impulse
+1y
Originally posted by SuperCharged6MT
Originally posted by shawnswhip
fuck bush,cheney,clinton,john kerry,everyoneimg src="/chatroom/images/12200350231AM75430.gif">
Yeah, fuck everyone, and move somewhere else and look at what kind of life you'll live there!
Life in canada is great! Life in many other places around the world is awesome! hell life in cuba is awesome!
There are MANY countries in the world that do not have such hard feelings towards them like the US does.
A lot of people are just to proud/ignorant to open their eyes to any possibility of other explanations.
Originally posted by shawnswhip
fuck bush,cheney,clinton,john kerry,everyoneimg src="/chatroom/images/12200350231AM75430.gif">
Yeah, fuck everyone, and move somewhere else and look at what kind of life you'll live there!
Life in canada is great! Life in many other places around the world is awesome! hell life in cuba is awesome!
There are MANY countries in the world that do not have such hard feelings towards them like the US does.
A lot of people are just to proud/ignorant to open their eyes to any possibility of other explanations.
MDcrew208
+1y
Edited: 9/13/2006 3:01:13 AM by MDcrew208
Origanally posted by moron above --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Originally posted by JaydaddyzBurb
you can call me blind but something tells me our govt wouldnt do somethign like 9/11 just to invade ourt privacy or any shit like that
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What better and more effective way to do it though????
it seems to have gotten the job done.-----------------------you people are insane.. you think a group of american people (our gov't) would kill that many people in order to be able to invade our privacy.. you've got to be kidding me
Origanally posted by moron above --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Originally posted by JaydaddyzBurb
you can call me blind but something tells me our govt wouldnt do somethign like 9/11 just to invade ourt privacy or any shit like that
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What better and more effective way to do it though????
it seems to have gotten the job done.-----------------------you people are insane.. you think a group of american people (our gov't) would kill that many people in order to be able to invade our privacy.. you've got to be kidding me